July 28, 2014

Some locals to council: Tear down that sticker

Danedri Thompson
dthompson@gardnernews.com
Conceal and carry license holders will not be allowed to carry guns in city hall. City council members agreed to request a four year exemption from a state law that would allow licensed holders to carry firearms in publicly-owned buildings.
The city will request that only city hall be exempted from the new law. License holders will be allowed to pack heat in other city-owned properties, including the Gardner Aquatic Center. Schools are exempt from the law.
Following the four-year exemption, city officials will have to secure city hall with metal detectors and armed guards or take down the sticker identifying city hall as a gun free zone. Police Chief Cullumber estimated it would cost approximately $100,000 annually to meet the requirements.
Several citizens argued against wasting time and resources to secure city hall.
“It’s a ridiculous waste of our resources and our money, and I don’t want to see it happen,” Lee Moore, Gardner, told council.
Moore, a conceal-and-carry license holder, said it doesn’t make sense to fortify city hall against patrons like him.
He said if city officials are going to spend money, he would prefer they spend it on the police department rather than bullet proof glass at city hall.
City council members expressed concerns about the legal and insurance cost ramifications of allowing licensed holders to carry concealed guns in city hall.
Ryan Denk, city attorney, would not speculate which of the options – allowing conceal-and-carry at city hall, or requesting the exemption – would create bigger legal challenges.
Council member Tory Roberts said the city is already opening itself up to liability because conceal and carry will be allowed in other city-owned buildings.
Council member Heath Freeman said he wasn’t worried about insurance premiums increasing, if city officials allowed conceal and carry at city hall. He said he called Kentucky officials, who dealt with similar law changes recently.
“They said there wasn’t a change (in insurance rates),” Freeman said. “That’s what I found from other people’s experience.”
Freeman said he supported the request for a four-year exemption because it is a one-shot deal. Officials have until the end of 2013 to request the exemption. After that, they will be required to take down the stickers calling city hall a gun-free zone.
“It’s a one-time deal,” Freeman said. “We can always take the signs down later.”
Council member Steve Shute said Kansas and federal law allow citizens the right to own and carry guns.
“Approving the letter is kicking the can down the road,” he said. “I don’t see the value in submitting a letter.”
Council member Kristina Harrison said very few citizens have contacted her about allowing conceal-and-carry in city hall. However of those who sent emails to her on the topic, the majority requested that city hall remain a gun-free zone.
City officials met in executive session to draft a security plan that will be part of the letter requesting exemption from the new law.
Council members voted, 3-2, to request the exemption from the Kansas Attorney General. Members Kristina Harrison, Freeman and Fotovich voted to request the exemption. Roberts and Shute voted against it.

Comments

  1. Judith Rogers says:

    I despise the gun culture communities our legislators such as Sutton and our governor have brought about. I want no guns in our government buildings nor in any of the businesses where I shop. It makes me sick to think that guns will be allowed at the Gardner Aquatic Center where there are so many children. That asinine Zimmerman provides a good example of what you get from the NRA gun huggers and conceal carry nutjobs. They use the excuse of wanting their constitutional rights protected – much more involved than that. You wonder how the Hitlers come into power – well, it is due to ignorant, lowlife citizens who enabled and support the likes of Hitler and others. Think about it and hopefully get your priorities and moral values in order instead of constantly running your mouth about your rights under the constitution being protected – every time I see more guns in my community, I certainly feel my rights being violated and much more but most of the NRA fearing lowlife politicians don’t care about me having to live with guns everywhere I go. I see my nation slipping into the sewer more every day due to extremists and yet I still see some decency occasionally with entities such as the Prairie Village government entity and with Obama who both fight for some common sense with respect to guns – may the white hat decency be more prevalent in the coming days and years. I just know that elected officials and the well paid bureaucrats certainly show you what they stand for and every citizen can take it from there based on their own beliefs and moral values.

  2. While I respect your having an opinion, and that it is yours alone, I think you would be well served to do a little research regarding the information you have produced, specifically George Zimmerman. And specifically the state of Kansas.

    Numbers from the KS Attorney General website:

    Permits issued since FY2007: 59392
    Permits suspended or revoked, same time period: 130

    Additionally, several of those permits suspended were reissued once the permit holder was exonerated of any allegations of wrongdoing.

    I suggest that you also take a look at statistics regarding crime statistics involving gun owners nationwide, you’ll find that on the whole, gun owners and CCW licensees are more law abiding than those not licensed. I also think you’ll find that George Zimmerman is an anomaly amongst CCW licensees, and responsible gun owners condemn his actions almost as strongly as anti-gun citizens.

    As a private citizen, I respect your right to conduct your business with whomever you please, and I hope that you would extend that same respect to me, as a gun owner and CCW licensee.

    Further, the lawful exercise of one’s constitutional protections does not make one an extremist. You don’t want anything to do with firearms, and I respect that. I expect the same courtesy.

    The research I suggested has bee done for you, and you can find it at http://www.gunfacts.info The information presented there is fact, and footnotes are provided to verify the information contained therein, If you choose to look.

    If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time to listen, I hope it has been helpful for you.

  3. Judith Rogers says:

    Cowardly Nonamer: Your comments do not change my opinion one iota nor were they helpful. I do not care to live in a gun culture community or world and I especially hate my elected officials bringing that type of world to me and creating astronomical costs to myself, a loyal taxpayer. You can peddle your propaganda and rhetoric to those who want to drink your koolaid but myself, I won’t be drinking it.

  4. I must admit, it was difficult to resist the temptation to engage you in your defamatory discussion in a public forum. I believe the purpose of this forum is to comment on the article, its merits, and allow the opportunity to learn from one another.

    As I said before, your opinion is yours, and I respect that. I also asked the same courtesy, but apparently I’m not deserving inasmuch as I am a gun owner.

    You might take into consideration before you put metaphorical pen to paper, that my post was to hopefully allow you to open your mind to intelligent and rational discussion. Apparently, if you believe the moon is made of Camembert, when it is clearly made of Roquefort, then your cheesemonger is a cultist on the order of Jim Jones.

    Not incidentally, I did nothing to conceal my identity. You will note that my username, emills, is actually quite similar to my legal name, Eric Mills.

    If you choose to continue your defamation, you may do so privately at wa0elm@yahoo.com

  5. Judith Rogers says:

    I just looooooove the CFG/Sutton/GOP/Tea Party dingbat gun huggers and haters – they show themselves for what they are every day of the week………now they have me owning a business………..talk about accuracy and facts – that is not in their rumor world! Hate is the name of the game for them and you will find that out if you have a different opinion than theirs, especially on guns or if you hold them accountable. Ahhhhh, the great men of our community and their comments……read at your leisure….I don’t know how in the Sam Hill Jim Jones got into the picture but hey just look at who brought his name in……..

    ***********************************************************************

    Eric Mills
    ATTENTION JUDITH ROGERS!!!

    Please turn your attention to the Gardner News article in which you compare me to Jim Jones. I have responded.
    Share · 13 hours ago near Baldwin City, KS

    Eric Mills Or more specifically, your closed minded and defamatory response to my attempt to provide you with information
    13 hours ago · 1
    Bob Williams Is Judith on here?
    13 hours ago via mobile
    Eric Mills I have no idea whether she is or not.
    13 hours ago
    Bob Williams I don’t think so.
    13 hours ago via mobile
    Eric Mills Uhm OK, I guess?
    13 hours ago
    Darla Williams What did the article say?
    13 hours ago
    Doug Gilbert It said that Judith needs a psych evaluation.
    13 hours ago · 1
    Eric Mills It wasn’t so much the article, but her closed minded opinion on gun ownership. I tried to provide her a reference showing the statistics that gun ownership reduces crime, and in her response she compared me and other gun owners to infamous cultist Jim Jones. I didn’t take the bait, but rather provided her an opportunity to discuss it outside a public forum.
    13 hours ago · 1
    Kevin Hultgren eric you proved her wrong. she will not respond now
    13 hours ago via mobile · 1
    Darla Williams Is she the one that has Dolphin Song?
    13 hours ago
    Eric Mills I kinda thought that might be the case, but I have provided her the means to contact me.
    13 hours ago
    Eric Mills @Darla, I have no idea. @Doug, that would surprise me not a whit, based on her comments. If you read the article regarding concealed carry in public buildings, and the comments, you’ll be able to see everything.
    12 hours ago
    Ryan Beasley She’s not on here. She’ll be flattered though I assure you.
    11 hours ago via mobile · 1
    Nate Louderback Ryan Beasley I am pretty sure that she is on here under a fake name because if you make fun of her on here she always knows and responds on unrelated Staff GardnerNews article. I refuse to acknowledge her dogmatic stupidity. No one likes her and everyone who argues hopes she doesn’t agree with them becuase it weakens their position.
    3 hours ago
    Robert E Ford Yes she owns the dolphin song
    3 hours ago via mobile
    Jeff Babka It’s an open group guys….pretty sure that means anyone can read what is on here, member or not
    3 hours ago · 1
    Kevin Hultgren OMG she is Ryan on here
    3 hours ago via mobile · 1
    Robby D Durham I dont think jr is the lady that owns dolphin song. that’s a diferent lady. missinger.
    3 hours ago via mobile · 1
    Nate Louderback Yes, JR wouldn’t stoop to being a greedy business owner. And of course she defines being greedy as wanting to have low taxes. She’ll accuse all politicians of being crooks and thieves (and define crooks and thieves as being someone who disagrees with her) and heaven forbid you vote out someone and put someone new because that new person is also a crook and a thief because only crooks and thieves could ever get elected….. All with no evidence and she thinks she’s ok because she says ‘in my opinion.’ Of course, in my opinion Judith is….. I’ll let your imagination run wild.
    about an hour ago

  6. Judith Rogers says:

    I might add that myself, personally, am not an advocate of the rumor Mills……………….

  7. Just because you disagree with something doesn’t infringe on your right. We have a constitutional amendment right to bear arms. Though you call it the other way, the only thing I see coming out of your comments is hate and vitriol.

    Troy Buczinski (just in case my name doesn’t show, don’t want anybody accusing me of hiding behind my screen)

  8. Judith Rogers says:

    And I also have a constitutional right of freedom of speech and opinion. But I know one thing for sure and that is if your opinion does not align with the NRA gun huggers and zealots, they immediately head to the CFG Facebook page which includes the old crony politicians and GOP extremists and they start their hate mongering, lies, rumors, etc. – the very purpose the CFG Facebook page was setup for. Your legacy is alive and well, Beasley, and you have many brown shirts to follow you………..I can see you puffing up as I speak……..so be it but you won’t be shutting my voice down regardless of the crap the little boys in the big boy pants utilize……….have a Great Day and stay cozy warm with your guns and your propaganda, rhetoric and hate. These are my opinions.

  9. Judith Rogers says:

    I would say it wouldn’t hurt for Kansans to have a history refresher course…………below is one from the History Learning Site……….good ole fear is used time and time again in our past as a great manipulator to get the power that some want………..now the fear is put out there that you have to carry a gun 24/7 in order to be safe and once again the “followers”, not independent thinkers, step up to the plate and I believe this fear mongering will bring about no good………just more heartache, suffering, wrongdoing, etc., etc. Below you will read about Hitler’s Enabling Law – I constantly talk about what citizens enable and support. Think about it. If you don’t know your history, you won’t know where you are going and you could very well make the same terrible mistakes time and time again. I know why the Jews will never let the people forget.

    **********************************************************************************************

    Nazi Germany – Dictatorship

    Nazi Germany under the leadership of Hitler soon became a dictatorship. A dictatorship requires one person and one party to be in control of a nation and a climate of fear – this was provided by Himmler’s SS. Personal freedom disappeared in Nazi Germany.

    When Hitler was appointed chancellor on January 30th 1933, it was at the head of a coalition government. It was very clear in his mind that it would not remain this way for long. By the end of March 1933, he had acquired much greater powers than the former leading politicians of the Weimar Republic could ever have foreseen when they supported his appointment as chancellor. The death of President Hindenburg in August 1934, allowed him to combine both chancellor’s and president’s positions into one when Hitler became the Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor.

    How did Germany descend so quickly into becoming a dictatorship?

    When Hitler was appointed in January 1933, Germany was a democracy. Germany had fair elections; nobody had their right to vote abused (are those voting rights being abused here in the USA in 2013?); there were numerous political parties you could vote for etc. To pass a law, the Reichstag had to agree to it after a bill went through the normal processes of discussion, arguments etc. Within the Reichstag of January 1933, over 50% of those who held seats were against the Nazi Party. Therefore it would have been very unlikely for Hitler to have got passed into law what he wanted. Many saw Hitler as a fall-guy politician who would have to shoulder to blame if things got worse under his leadership.

    Hitler had promised a general election for March 1933. This would have been, in his mind, the perfect opportunity for him to show all politicians who opposed him where the true loyalties lay in the German people. In fact, 1932 had shown Hitler that there was a possibility that support for the Nazis had peaked as their showing in the November 1932 election had shown. Anything other than a huge endorsement of Hitler and the Nazi Party would have been a disaster and a gamble which it is possible that Hitler did not want to take.

    One week before the election was due to take place, the Reichstag building burned down. Hitler immediately declared that it was the signal for a communist takeover of the nation. Hitler knew that if he was to convince President Hindenburg to give him emergency powers – as stated in the Weimar Constitution – he had to play on the old president’s fear of communism. What better than to convince him that the communists were about to take over the nation by force?

    A known communist – Marianus van der Lubbe – was caught near the Reichstag building immediately after the fire had started. Those that arrested him – Nazi officials – claimed that Lubbe confessed to them that the fire was a signal to other communists to start the revolution to overthrow democracy in the country. Matches were allegedly found on van der Lubbe and those who arrested him claimed that he smelt of petrol.

    Hitler asked Hindenburg to grant him emergency powers in view of the ‘communist takeover’. Using the constitution, Hindenburg agreed to pass the Law for the Protection of the People and the State.

    This law gave Hitler what he wanted – a ban on the Communists and Socialists taking part in an election campaign. The leaders from both parties were arrested and their newspapers were shut down. To ‘keep the peace’ and maintain law and order, the SA (the Brown Shirts) roamed the streets beating up those who openly opposed Hitler.

    The election took place in March – though Hitler was convinced it would be the last. Hitler did not get the number of votes he wanted but he did get enough to get over a 50% majority in the Reichstag:
    Communists 4.8 million votes
    Social Democrats 7.2 million votes
    Centre party 5.5 million votes
    Nationalists 3.1 million votes
    Other parties 1.4 million votes
    Nazis 17.3 million votes

    That 12 million people voted for what were effectively two outlawed parties is remarkable when the intimidation of voters is taken into account.

    After the burning down of the Reichstag, politicians had nowhere to meet. The Kroll Opera House in Berlin was chosen. This was a relatively small round building – perfect for meetings. On March 23rd, elected officials were due to meet to discuss and vote on Hitler’s Enabling Law.

    As politicians neared the building, they found it surrounded by SS and SA thugs who tried to ensure that only Nazi or Nationalist politicians got into the building. The vote for this law was crucial as it gave Hitler a vast amount of power. The law basically stated that any bill only needed Hitler’s signature and within 24 hours that bill would become law in Germany. With only Nazis and other right wing politicians inside the Kroll Opera House, the bill was quickly passed into law. The act gave Hitler what he wanted – dictatorial power. What he wanted would become law in Germany within 24 hours of his signature being put on paper.

    On 7th April 1933, Nazi officials were put in charge of all local government in the provinces.

    On May 2nd 1933, trades unions were abolished, their funds taken and their leaders put in prison. The workers were given a May Day holiday in return.

    On July 14th 1933, a law was passed making it illegal to form a new political party. It also made the Nazi Party the only legal political party in Germany.

    Germany became a nation of snoops. People were employed in each street, in each building complex etc. with the sole purpose of keeping an eye on others in their ‘area’ and reporting them to the authorities if they believed that something was amiss. The reputation of the Nazi police and the secret police lead by Himmler was such that no-one wished to cause offence. People kept their thoughts to themselves unless they wished to invite trouble. In this sense, Nazi Germany was a nation run on fear of the government. Hitler had created a one party state within months of being appointed chancellor.

    His only remaining problem from his point of view was loyalty within his own party ranks. In June 1934, he overcame this with the Night of the Long Knives.

  10. Judith you do realize that the Nazi’s disarmed their political opponents, and exempted their government workers from having to obtain permits to acquire firearms right?

    You wrote:
    If you don’t know your history, you won’t know where you are going and you could very well make the same terrible mistakes time and time again. I know why the Jews will never let the people forget.

    Judith, in 1938 the Nazis made it illegal for Jews to own firearms. They confiscated weapons from them and other political enemies of the Nazi state. Just a Kansan brushing you up on a little history now.

    “To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them.”- George Mason (One of the Founding Fathers and a key creator in the Bill of Rights)

  11. Judith Rogers says:

    And to me the more guns out there on the street decreases my safety. This gun issue of the NRA nutjobs is one of ignorance, fear and regression in my opinion and none of your propaganda or rhetoric is going to change my opinion. With over 60,000 conceal carry permits now given in the state of Kansas, or perhaps even more, and growing as we speak due to people like Sutton and Boillot, places me back in the 1800′s as far as I am concerned and with all of the risk exposures. Another thing that is so idiotic to me is where the conceal carry people don’t want their names to appear on an open records state list – they are just like the criminals – they don’t want a citizen to know their identity or let people know they carry a concealed gun. No one seems to care that there are people in the state who would like to have this information so they may make the choice of not allowing their children, grandchildren, etc. into a home with guns. The NRA also does absolutely nothing about increasing checks on people before they are able to buy a gun or even any laws or checks on the mentally ill buying firearms…….the gun shows continue – all you need is the green and the will to buy a gun.

    It appears my Kansas government entities and the elected officials are wanting/approving for every man or woman to be carrying a gun 24/7 – it appears to me that is where we are headed and there are many, many reasons why I object to that and to put the cherry on the top of the cake our Kansas legislators want absolutely no interference from the federal government with respect to gun laws, how gun companies operate and how they want those gun companies to move here with the assurance the federal government could have no say over them. This damn state government wants to do what they want to, when and how they want – much like the city of Gardner and Mr. Gilhaus and his school board and if you ask any questions about your own government, those bureaucrats and politicians are more than ready to give you the bird and with a smile on their face while doing it. And much like Hitler and his cohorts did I am sure.

    Fear mongering and propaganda and rhetoric and lies are what is causing these gun culture communities and states to occur now. And you have the gullible people racing to step up to the plate to be a part of this disaster in the making.

    I would say there are lot of people really miserable now since they must be living in such fear and worship their guns more than they do their God and of course, they want to remain anonymous. The lovely nonamers…………..such upstanding citizens…………they won’t even take ownership of their comments, opinions, viewpoints, actions, etc.

  12. Judith Rogers says:

    George is being picked on again……….these women just make up these wild stories ( that would be what the CFG guys would be saying if it were me)………..and the joker still has his guns and will probably continue to walk the streets and harrass some other people while enjoying his “constitutional rights” or baiting the police to even dare ask him what his name is……………….our locals sure want to go anywhere and everywhere with their concealed weapons and I am sure they would be selling themselves as “neighborhood watch volunteers”…….do I feel safer? – the answer is a RESOUNDING NO!!!!!!!

    *************************************************************************************************

    George Zimmerman had five guns when arrested: police

    Joe Burbank-Pool/Getty Images

    George Zimmerman during a court appearance last week.
    By Tom Winter and Tracy Connor, NBC News

    George Zimmerman possessed five guns — including an AR-15-type rifle — when he was arrested last week and accused of pointing one of the weapons at his girlfriend, according to documents released by police.

    The other firearms included a Keltec shotgun and three handguns, and Zimmerman also had 127 rounds of ammunition for the weapons, the papers say.

    Zimmerman — who was acquitted over the summer of second-degree murder in the shooting of unarmed teen Trayvon Martin — was arrested Nov. 18 and charged with aggravated assault after a confrontation with Samantha Scheibe at a home in Apopka, Fla.

    He was released on $9,000 bond and told he could not have any firearms. He entered a written plea of not guilty, and his former lawyers said last week that they expected he would be cleared of any criminal wrongdoing.
    Advertise | AdChoices

    Search warrants and an affidavit made public Monday cataloged the weapons Zimmerman had in the house. An investigator said that when police arrived, in response to 911 calls, “it appeared as if George Zimmerman had locked the firearms up.”

    Scheibe told police that she and Zimmerman were “involved in a verbal altercation that turned physical,” the police report says. She said that when she told him she was calling police, he pointed a shotgun at her, asked her if “she really wanted to do that,” then broke a table with the weapon.

    Zimmerman’s version was that Scheibe “began to argue and throw his belongings around the house,” the documents say. He said she “picked up a couple of his firearms [a handgun and shotgun], throwing them onto the living room floor.” In his 911 call, he denied displaying a gun and said she broke the table.

    During Zimmerman’s initial court appearance last week, a prosecutor said Scheibe told authorities that he choked her during an argument a week and a half earlier and that he had threatened suicide. His lawyers said he did not appear suicidal.

    In September, the police chief of the Florida town of Lake Mary, where Zimmerman had lived, expressed concern that he was allowed to carry a gun.

    “I’m a small-town police chief. If I had the authority to revoke his firearm license, I would certainly sit down and consider that,” Steve Bracknell told NBC News.

    Days earlier, Zimmerman’s estranged wife, Shellie Zimmerman, had accused him of threatening her and her father with a gun during a dispute over belongings. She later said she had not actually seen a gun, and he said that she attacked him. No charges were filed.

    When Zimmerman pulled over by police in Augustfor allegedly speeding, he told the officer he had a gun in his glove compartment, police said.

    Zimmerman, 30, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, has been a central figure in the national debate over guns since he shot Martin, 17, when they crossed paths in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012. A jury acquitted him in July.

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