April 24, 2014

Problems continue to plague DMV

Mark Taylor
mtaylor@gardnernews.com
Johnson County Commissioners expressed frustration Sept. 6 over ongoing motor vehicle registration problems associated with a new computer system implemented by the state last May.
Although Tom Franzen, county treasurer, said wait times have improved over the past few months, the new system remains far from efficient.
Since the new system was launched, customers have waited hours for registration renewals and title work, and the county has expended $800,000 for additional employees to help with the workload.
Beyond that, the county has spent more than $29,000 in overtime expenses.
Hannes Zacharias, county manager, said there has been talk about raising fees from $5 to $7 to help cover the shortfall.
But Commissioner Calvin Hayden said the state should be held accountable.
At one point he suggested the county consider implementing its own motor vehicle registration system.
“Taxpayers keep getting the shaft in this,” Hayden said.  “Not only are we going to add insult to injury. We are truly adding cost to the taxpayer when they have been extremely patient. At some point we’ve got to draw the line.
“Throwing money at it is not going to fix it.  We’ve thrown people at it and we’ve thrown money at it. At some point do we throw lawyers at it?”
Zacharias responded, “Statute says we have to do what the state tells us to do.”
Hayden countered, “Statute can be changed with phone calls.”
The state’s vehicle registration system was switched over from a 30-year-old mainframe to a real time processing system in May.
However, the new $40 million system has resulted in long service delays, and customers have been cut off at mid-day because of capacity problems.
Tom Franzen, county treasurer, said the difference between the old system and the new system is that previously, motor vehicle offices stored data on their own servers during the day and then transferred it to Topeka after doors closed.
Now each piece of data is sent to Topeka directly.
State officials have said the delay problems could last as long as a year.
Several counties, including Johnson, Shawnee and Sedgwick have experienced additional expenses and service delays with the new system.
Franzen said the average wait time for customers seeking to renew their plates or register a title was about 30 to 40 minutes under the old system.
Once customers got to the window, transactions took about 10 minutes.
With the new system, wait times averaged three hours and 30 minutes for renewals and four hours for titles in May.
In June and July, wait times were about two hours and half hours for renewals and four hours for titles.
Wait times for August are down to an average one hour for renewals and two hours for titles.
Average processing times at the windows were about 10 minutes for renewals and 18 minutes for titles in May, 10 minutes for renewals and 17 minutes for titles in June, 9 minutes for renewals and 16 minutes for titles in July, and 8.5 minutes for renewals and 15 minutes for titles in August.
Franzen said the department hasn’t had to close the office early except for two days at the end of August for those seeking title work.
That is a result of more customers doing their transactions on line and via mail.

Comments

  1. Judith Rogers says:

    Aaaahhhh, Brownback’s leadership results and the people voted for him and supported and enabled him and his goonies like Nick Jordan………….gonna cost you time and money and lots of it………..

  2. Since when, Judith, did being a governor require a degree in computer science? Or the ability to intuit technical complexities of retiring a 40-year-old mainframe system and replacing it with something else?

    i know it’s difficult for you to comprehend a world where everything that happens might NOT actually be an excuse to blame the people you hate, but unless you have more proof than your dislike of Brownback, your blame of him is, as usual, wrong.

    Maybe you’re blinded by all those anonymous posts you post.

  3. Judith Rogers says:

    As Truman said: The buck stops here……………Brownback doesn’t believe in being held accountable??? He is more into political drivel like worthless politicians are known for. More like he doesn’t want to be held accountable………just like you, Nonamer Coward, who always wears the white hood………….bet this summer you have really been sweating like you well should………..

  4. Duane Waldman says:

    There is absolutely no excuse for the delays going on. Blaming data transport between the 2 systems is complete and utter BS. The only one to blame is Brownback for letting it be implemented and Brownback for not getting it fixed.
    If it was simply a data transport issue, it should have been fixed by now. My guess is, it is a efficiency issue cause by the architectural structure of the database, which is why it is taking so long to fix. It is like building a balcony and not putting enough supports under it. If inspectors had been used then they would have been able to see that it could not support more than 2 people. Brownback didn’t use inspectors, and now it has to be redone so that it can hold 20 people, in the meantime only 2 people can stand on it. The company they hired failed to do a load test and that is a management issue. There is no one else to blame. It doesn’t take a computer scientist to see the problems of not testing a new system properly.

  5. Duane, have you ever tried implementing a large-scale system like the DMV’s system? How would you propose that Brownback have Magic 8-balled the problems in the system when the computer company itself can’t figure it out? Was he supposed to personally stand in DMV offices around the state, registering for car tags and titles with thousands of his friends, all to put a stress test on the system so he could make his critics happy?

    Replacing 40-year-old mainframe systems with an entirely new networked system that talks to cities spread across the state is not simple. Or cheap. Building a distributed network system is not the same thing as adding a deck onto your house. You can’t eyeball a system as complex as the DMV and know that it’s not going to hold 20 people. And “data transport” is also not as simple to “fix” as it is to type it onto a newspaper forum.

    That said, Brownback and the state DO have culpability in hiring the company that did this. Judith is right (for once) in saying that as top executive in the state, the buck needs to stop with him. But that’s not the same thing as implying (like both you and Judith are) that he should have been hands-on, cohabitating with the DMV programmers, to make sure there weren’t wrinkles in the system.

    The company should take the bulk of the blame for not doing what they were hired to do. Kansas should force the company to make the system flawless, then sue them to recoup any and all expenses the state (and taxpayers) have incurred by the company’s incompetence. From what I’ve read, that’s exactly what Kansas intends to do. Are you going to blame Brownback for THAT as well?

  6. Duane Waldman says:

    Yes, I have implemented large scale systems. I work on one everyday that transports data, well over 10g a day, to at least 5 different countries a day and handles over a million transactions everyday. It is what I do and I am very good at making them efficient. It doesn’t take a magic 8-ball to see issues, in the software world they expose themselves rather rapidly when proper testing has occurred prior to deploying to a production environment. Perhaps he prayed for it to work, again in the software world, praying does not work very well. You HAVE to test. Of course the company that sold Brownback the crap system is going to have problems fixing it. Otherwise they would have written the system correctly the first time. The only reason it is taking this long to fix is because they have to rewrite it and probably have to bring in experienced people to fix it.

    Building out a distributed system is rather easy and has been done many, many, many, many, many, many times before. Data transport is as fast as the system it is traveling across. We are not talking about laying dedicated lines to each office, they run over VPN’s these days. Any issues, should have been exposed with proper testing. Testing a new system is not a new thing in our world. Show me one engineer worth his weight who “Eyeballs” something he builds and certifies it as safe.

    Brownback was advised how the system was working, if he didn’t ask for a 3rd party test then he was wrong, especially for a widespread system like this that affects everyone. He is probably paying the company to fix the same problems they created, because he signed off on the final product. Look, I don’t know you or what you do, but do you think for 1 minute that the CEO of a company could allow for a system to go out that pissed off all the customers, and he should get to keep his job. But this is politics and he is only responsible for the “good” things he does and the screw ups are someone elses fault.

  7. Judith Rogers says:

    Our governments are so disfunctional and damaging because of POLITICIANS like Brownback and screwups like Nonomer who enable and support jaybirds like him. And why are these jaybirds always around saying “It’s not my fault” or “It’s not his fault”????? Money, greed and power…..that’s why………never saw a slimeball wearing a white hood that shouldn’t be stamped on by a heavy work boot.

  8. You are not wrong, Duane, when you say that the DMV situation ought to be easier than it was, but that’s not very real world for how these things work. I have watched from the outside or heard about way too many projects like this that have gone into the tank. Especially when one side of the equation is a government entity with a 40-year-old system to replace and the other side is consulting company that’s promising to deliver the world.

    For example, the major trucking corporation that’s headquartered in Overland Park did just that. They paid a nationally-renowned consulting company $100 million to update their systems to protect against Y2K, only to find out that this consulting company failed to do the job at all.

    According to people I knew at the time who worked at the trucking company, the consulting company hired in people off the street, with no experience in programming or anything like it, to come in and work under their subject matter experts, ostensibly because their SME’s would be able to tell them what to do and how to do it. All so the consulting company could save on their expenses. The train wreck that ensued was monumental.

    Turns out the trucking company not only fired the consulting company, it successfully sued to get the $100 million back. Of course, they had to turn around and spend that, and more, to repair the damage the consulting company left behind…THEN prepare their systems for Y2K.

    I don’t recall hearing that the CEO of that trucking company got fired. Maybe he should have. My friends at the trucking company tell me that management there was enamored with the notion that the consulting company could do all its Y2K stuff in parallel to the normal work being done, so they were fairly deaf to the pleas from their employees who were trying to tell them that the consulting company was screwing things up. There had already been a LOT of money paid out to the consulting company and a LOT of time eaten up. Nobody wanted to be the one to stand up and say the worst case scenario was getting ready to happen, so it happened. Disastrous stupidity.

    Major projects like the Y2K fiasco at the trucking company or the DMV are hard to correct once they’re started. A CEO or state chief executive CAN ultimately be held responsible for the flub-ups that happen under their watch, but it’s unrealistic to think that they would be invovled in the minute-to-minute status reports from one project out of all the other responsibilities they’re managing. At some point, they have to rely that their people who are responsible for the individual projects are going to be competent enough to provide them with solid information on how it’s all working. And they have to be able to determine if the company they’ve hired to do the projects are going to be diligent and honest about the progress they’re making.

    I haven’t read where someone has said Brownback had heard the DMV system was going to crash and he ignored it. Maybe he could’ve found out if he knew where to dig; maybe not.

  9. Duane Waldman says:

    100 million for a Y2K bug. Haha! He is an idiot and should have been fired for incompetence. I was in the middle of the Y2K Bug, In almost all systems there was either no problem, just a change of data, an update to the operating system, some systems required adding a century field to the data. Your 3rd hand info is completely bogus. Somebody lied to you. Or, or I may be wrong and again the CEO was a complete idiot and should have been fired for not doing his due diligence on a 100 million contract.

    This is what happens when you think that oversite is regulations and that regulations are BS. You can keep defending your dear leader, but he cost you and me and everyone else a lot of money for his screw up that you continue to defend.

  10. Judith Rogers says:

    Duane, you bring a great big smile to my face……………someone who has the needed knowledge and experience and uses it to help the people.

    Nonamer, is evidently connected to trucking and the first person who comes to my mind is Ryan Beasley and he is a perfect person who would wear the white hood in my opinion based on Beasley’s words, actions, inaction and much, much more……….like the spreading of lies and hate involved in the recall, etc., etc.

    Time will tell who the nonamers are and then the anonymous entities will be anonymous no longer………..is that white hood getting warmer by the day, Nonamer?????

  11. Whatever, Duane. You’ve made your point that you don’t like Brownback. And that you don’t live in the real world. It’s classic, really. You tell us, “My system works, so it must always be easy”. Step into reality some day, then we can compare “big system” stories.

    Also, you could always look up the info I cited yourself if you don’t believe it. Thirteen or fourteen years ago, but I’m sure google could eventually turn it up. It IS unbelievable that a major corporation could screw up so badly and be fooled so badly by a company it hired. The people working there at the time thought it was unbelievable. And that’s just one example. I could give you plenty more, plenty of stupid companies doing stupid things. And even MORE that struggled with complicated challenges that go beyond plugging in network servers. But again, why bother? You seem to just want to blame CEO’s and governors for everything, so reality won’t really help.

    Judith, quit sniffing glue. You obviously don’t have a lot of spare thoughts to lose. Are you seriously trying to say I’m Ryan, who posts out here all the time using his name? And that I’m somehow “connected to trucking” based on an event that happened twelve years ago?

    HAHAHAHA! What a doof! Give it up, Panda. You’re still miles off.

    Better still, you’re a big fat hypocritical liar. Time is already telling who the anonymous noname poster is: Her name is Judith Rogers.

  12. Duane Waldman says:

    Actually, I could give a rip about Brownback. We learned about due diligence at the school board meeting tonight, it is an interesting concept.

    I would love to discuss the big system’s you have worked on. Let me guess, it has the letters D M V in it.

  13. Oooh, nice try, Duane, but no. I HAVE worked on systems that process 60 million rows of data per hour and a different, smaller-scale one that handles input from client sites at the rate of a hundred transactions per second. The first worked okay from a data transport layer, but bottlenecked at storing the data. The second worked just okay and was scalable, but not nimble if changes needed to be made. Both could be counted as successes OR failures, depending on the circumstances. So what?

    All I’m really trying to tell you is that it’s fairly meaningless to try to blame a single individual for the failure of a complex process. You keep posting that CEO’s and governors need to get fired for stuff like the DMV or the trucking company (or any number of the other screwed up systems I’ve seen). Maybe you’re right, but projects like these don’t hinge, success OR failure, on the actions of some distant executive. Most of the time, they’re doomed from the start by things like the long-standing culture of the companies involved, poor coordination and communication between the departments that should be working together, planning too small a scope for the project, not having enough finances in place to do the project right, etc.

    A government project is even worse, because the government entity can’t as easily shuffle money/resources to a poorly-perfroming project and because of the general inefficiencies that come, built-in, with anything involving the government.

    So: Lots of reasons projects fail. In a perfect world, we COULD find a single CEO or manager type to hang from the yard arm to make us feel better, but most of the time, companies are just not nimble enough to pull off large-scale projects without messing up everything. I’m glad that your company seems to be an exception. Hope it stays that way.

  14. Duane Waldman says:

    Well, I guess we can agree to disagree on this. To me culture starts from the top and if the CEO demands perfection, the company’s employees may not be perfect, but they try harder. We are talking about large projects which greatly affect the bottom line. I know 40 million may seem small, but to me it is a large enough amount that the Governor should pay more attention. I also expect it is costing more than that now. It is also costing a lot of people a lot of extra time. Some people are having to take a whole day off from work, that doesn’t come cheap to them. Anyway, I am sure had the project went off without a hitch he would have been praising himself for a job well done.

    I am proud of the way my executives have handled management of the company. They do expect us to take the customer into heavy consideration when we are working on projects that will affect them. They wants the customers in and out of our systems as fast as possible, and we have grown and become #1 in our little slice of the world due to customer focus and how we work with them. IT builds it and the executives oversee final testing and give final approval. They take responsibility for what we put out and know that if they do not make sure it is right when it goes out the door, they will be the ones to hear about it. Maybe that is my problem, I work at a company that strives to be the best.

  15. Judith Rogers says:

    Doesn’t take long to spot the difference in people who have a conscience and moral values and those who don’t. Nonamer, typifies the lowlife slimeball and Duane represents someone who sounds like integrity, ethics, character, etc. have the highest value. Good vs. evil – the choice is always yours – what will you enable and support???

    I see more and more Nonamers in society as the days pass and it truly is concerning, however, I will continue to speak out against them and what they represent and if the American people care about their country and their loved ones, they will do likewise. I don’t think I have to paint the picture for citizens, if they have any kind of brain to them and some decency, as those who wear the white hoods are always shown for what they are.

  16. Judith, you wouldn’t know “slimeball” if it left snail tracks on your nose. And you clearly don’t have a horse in the discussion Duane and I were having, so don’t even try to make like you understand. If you think it’s a discussion about good and evil…well, I DID warn you about that glue-sniffing, didn’t I?

    As for nonamers? Maybe you’re seeing more nonamers every day because you keep catching your reflection in the monitor screen. Seriously, how can you even PRETEND to be critical of anonymous posting when you are, and have been, one of the biggest noname posters around. And you STILL won’t acknowledge that simple truth.

    Start by being honest with yourself, Judith, then you might see less evil in others.

  17. Judith Rogers says:

    I post every day under my given name, Judith Rogers…………….much unlike you, Nonamer Slimeball who is so ashamed of his drivel he won’t take ownership of it……….no big surprise……..

  18. Judith Rogers says:

    Back to Brownback…………..he must have had his hip boots on while dispensing this bullshi (not the Bolshoi Ballet but the Bullshi Poliitical Drivel)………http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/morning_call/2012/09/brownback-touts-the-policies-of-his.html?ana=e_wich_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2012-09-11……….ya think ole Brownback has reduced taxes/costs for the average citizen???????? I am not feeling it and never will because he doesn’t govern for Joe or Jill Blow, Mr., Mrs., Ms. Middle Class of America……..just like Romney wouldn’t be………..

  19. So are you saying, Judith, that you NEVER used to post anonymously, over and over, using different identities? Are you saying that you didn’t post for years at the Star and a number of other sites using a derivative of the nickname Panda? Really?

    If that’s your assertion, then you’re a liar, Panda. That’s not what so many of the people around the metro already know for a fact.

    If, instead, you’retrying to tell us that you don’t post anonymously anymore, then you’ve made your old habits a convenient thing to complain about in others. That makes you a hypocrite of the worst flavor: making up rules that other people have to live by that you never held yourself to.

    And it makes you even more of a slimebag for all the pretense you throw about it when you didn’t seem to have a problem with it when it served your purposes.

    Funny you talk about evil. Isn’t it evil (from your earlier post) a member of the KKK (you DO remember yesterday, hanging white hoods on Ryan, don’t you?). You’re making up stuff out of thin air that could get a guy killed. Or cost him his job.

    So, Judith, if you’re looking for slimebags, try catching that reflection of yourself again and try tell yourself again that you can be as lying and hypocritical as long as it suits your purposes. If you’re looking for evil? Same answer. Look at yourself in the mirror and see the Judith who would destroy someone’s job or get them attacked, all because she dislikes them.

    And quit trying to duck responsibility by changing the subject. You brought it up. Deal with it for a change.

  20. Judith Rogers says:

    Blah, blah, blah, blah………………..

    Thursday night would be a good night for the FBI or the Justice Dept. to make a raid on the mafia………………

    Just came back from a drive to Edgerton and to check out the horror story that Lehman and Drovetta were so instrumental in bringing to the doorsteps of citizens……..really make you sick and I can’t imagine anyone taking ownership of all of what will be coming in the years ahead……I just encourage all young families to get out as soon as they can and whatever ever you do, don’t even think about moving here, that is if you have brain in your head and care about what you will be living with and in………..really sad and pathetic………….I just know that guy they recently hired to enforce the codes in Edgerton has certainly got job security unless he really screws up…..his job will go on forever…………

    Everywhere I drove in Gardner and Edgerton today the air was so polluted and that certainly will not be improving. Along Main St. Gardner, you had gravel trucks and other trucks going and then right behind you, you had a long train with only containers – one big polluting, costly mess which involves no quality of life in my opinion. Really amazing what the lowlife, slimy politicians and bureaucrats and the thieves can do to you.

  21. Coward, Judith. Next time you yell at someone for not posting their name, remember how you always run away and hide from your culpability.

    Lowlife? Slimy? That shoe looks good on your foot.

  22. Will you two please stop wasting bandwidth with flame throwing? While entertaining for the citizens of the world who enjoy such things, it solves nothing, does not help improve conditions here in Gardner, increases animosity, and divides us further.

    Judith,
    I actually agree with a lot of what you write. You and I are on the same page often, agreeing on a lot of topics. However, you lose me when you go off on a personal rampage. I will give you an example: Dave Drovetta. I do not agree with every position he has. In fact, oftentimes I find myself at odds with his ideas regarding development in Gardner. That being said, I also consider him a friend. I like him as a person. I see him in various places in and around Gardner and we exchange pleasantries. He may or may not have a personal agenda regarding the Intermodal. Whatever that might be, if it exists, he has kept to himself. But he does have a professional agenda as mayor regarding this subject, which involves furthering the cause of Gardner. That is where he and I see differently. However, what disagreements we might have with one another regarding city business is not a personal issue, but rather, a professional one. Like I said, I agree with you regarding many subjects. But he is not personally trying to destroy Gardner. He is trying to make Gardner grow and be attractive to businesses, as he believes as his job requires. He is NOT a dictator-he was elected by the citizens of Gardner. Now, if you or I do not like that, we can work towards replacing him during the next election cycle. But how is insulting him helping your cause? All it does is discredit you. Like I first said, you and I are in agreement about so many things, but for some reason you come on here and by your words turn this place into some crazyland. It brings people out of the woodwork to attack you, and both sides get discredited, and the apathy continues. The reason the Facebook group is growing is because for the most part, people behave with civility in there. I have joined the group, and while I am pretty liberal compared to many of the members, no one has accosted me and called me names, nor have they accused me of wearing white sheets or being a dictator. Do I disagree with a lot of the members? Of course. Do I insult them? I may have, but I try not to. And I think that is why membership is growing there, and discourse is growing there, and not here. Anyone who disagrees with you is attacked with vigor. If someone insults you first, then fine, go ahead and retaliate. But if you are posting a new opinion, such as this article and how it pertains to Governor Brownback, can I ask a favor? Can you try and type out your comments as if you were addressing a crowd at City Hall or the school board or perhaps a church meeting?

    Nonamers,
    Judith may know who you are, but I do not. I would like to, though. Why do you remain anonymous? Why not let everyone that reads The Gardner News know your identity? I see you as being Judith’s polar opposite, yet she comes out ahead (in my opinion) because I know who she is. She has a point. Now, has she anonymously posted in the past? Perhaps-but that is not applicable now, as I always see her taking ownership for her comments, as incendiary as I might find them to be. Why not just post here with your name? What have you to lose? And in my opinion, your legitimacy will matter more knowing your real identity. Finally, with most folks, knowing each other automatically turns down the rhetoric notch just a bit. Not with everyone, mind you, but with most folks. The only way we can solve problems is to talk about them as mature women and men. The best way to show maturity is to take ownership of your comments.

    All I hope to accomplish in this online venue is help make Gardner a better place. This is a great venue for sharing legitimate criticism of news and opinion, and when done correctly, showcases our citizens as educated, informed, and thoughtful. Turning one of our online forums into the Springer show does not accomplish this; rather, it probably sets us back a few decades in the eyes of those outsiders who look in here. When people Google ‘Gardner news’ and look around in here, they probably think we are off the deep end.

    I will now cease with my Rodney King appeal to working together. I would hope that cooler heads will prevail and good constructive ideas could come out of internet forums like this. I realize I will probably be proven wrong, but wouldn’t it be fantastic if we could have discussions in here that do not make our children look more mature than us?

  23. Jerry L Kellogg Sr says:

    Nicely said, Wes. I don’t know you, but I already like you.

  24. Judith Rogers says:

    Mr. Rains: There is much to concern a citizen during this time of history and none more so than the Nonamers. I am certainly not perfect but I don’t believe I have ever reached the low level of many in this area and most of them are politcians, bureaucrats, so-called community leaders, business entities, thieves, etc. They are not authentic, genuine people and they are truly hurting our country, in my opinion, since they are driven by money, greed and power.

    Each person has to make their own choices and I know what is motivating me to make mine and I am not ashamed of those choices because I always have the well being of fellow citizens and my loved ones when I make those choices and most of all, I take OWNERSHIP of my words and actions which is so much more, in my opinion, than the lowlife, cowardly Nonamers. I do not work in the back rooms, I believe in transparency but the citizens haven’t had that in their governments for years and years. I don’t violate the Open Meeting or Record Acts, I speak my mind and that usually doesn’t go down well with the lowlifes who are stealing from you, in one way or the other, and causing much suffering every day of the week.

    Nonamer will always, always, always be bad mouthing me because I am a threat to him or her and to those like him or her. The rotten politicians especially don’t like people like me who they can’t shut up but that’s the way it goes. So many just keep their mouths shut because they are afraid of losing their jobs, being ostracized, etc. – fear truly drives some people in how they live. Government entities, led not by true representatives of the people, pretty much want the citizens to pay the bills and keep their mouths shut so they can do what they want, when they want and how they want.- all can make their own decision as to whether they will follow that path.

    Hope you have a great day, Mr. Rains.

  25. Wes,

    Let me ask you: how is a point more valid or logical by knowing who it is that’s making it? Is something true or false, just because you know or don’t know who you’re talking to?

    All too often online, people cheat their arguments by attacking the person directly and personally? Don’t believe me? Scan up a few posts and look at Judith’s comments about Ryan Beasley. She all but accused him with being a KKK! Look back over the years and you can see instances where she was attacking people’s religious beliefs, insulting their families, and worse. She dug up bankruptcy paperwork on one of the guys involved with the recall a few years back…not because his financial past had ANYTHING to do with the recal…all because she thought it would hurt him and (somehow) help her cause. She tried to slur a local businessman, using the criminal record of one of his employees…even though it turned out that the businessman was participating in a program to provide jobs for sexual offenders (the employee) to keep them busy and help PREVENT recidivism. Never mind that Judith likely broke the law, using the employee’s criminal record (that she lifted from the sheriff dept’s website), published his name, and made it MORE likely he would lose his job….which would make him MORE dangerous.

    With Judith, the point isn’t debating an issue face to face with someone. She’s looking for dirt to hurt people, plain and simple. Wes, I don’t know if you’ve been around long enough to have seen some of the stuff I’ve seen or heard about. Most of the time, she posts and rants and isn’t hurting anyone. Try to ask her questions, and she pulls out “slimy lowlife” and worse and changes the subject. Don’t believe me? Try it sometime. Or maybe you just did. She didn’t even answer the fair and honest questions you posed to her, just went back to “crazyland”.

    You are correct, Wes, in pointing out just how bad Gardner looks for all of this.

    I post out here as “noname” as a direct challenge to her tactics of personal attacks. The name-calling isn’t a big deal, but when she tries to get people fired, when she dumps onto the Internet the personal details of the lives of others, just because she’s unwilling (or unable) to argue with them honestly, she’s doing damage. If she was interested in actually discussing issues; if she didn’t have a well-documented past of trying to wreck people’s lives rather than argue with them, people would not have to worry about posting anonymously.

    What’s worse is that Judith, herself, has a history of posting anonymously as well. Another well-documented trait that she may or may not have abandoned. Why is she so interested in “nonamers” when she, herself, used to post on forums using multiple identities, just to make it look like people agreed with her arguments? For years, she used the nickname “Panda” at KC Star and other sites. So I feel my question to her is valid: why does she criticize “noname” posters when she won’t even acknowledge her own ventures into anonymity?

    I know I get carried away sometimes, but that’s kind of the point. Gardner News doesn’t seem to want to police its forum. I have yet to see ANY posts blocked, sanctioned, warned, or moderated: mine, Judith’s, ANYONE’s. Most of the time, I just let Judith’s post go. You can come out here pretty much any day and see the “recent comments” filled up with her name.

    I don’t want Judith to stop posting, but I DO agree with you that she needs to tone it down. The problem is that she won’t. Other people come out here and try to post and she buries them, or attacks them, or whines about not knowing who they are so she can attack them. Even when I stay out of the mix, people just plain get chased away.

    If I DON’T post, Gardner’s Google search turns up only what she has to say. Did you read the KC Star article that uses her term for Mayor Drovetta, “Dictator”, in reference to Gardner and Gardner government? That makes us look good, doesn’t it? Yep, ol’ Judith sure is a champion for our city, huh?

    So what’s YOUR solution, Wes? We could try an experiment and leave Judith alone out here and see if the Gardner Google search improves. We could wait and see who loses their job or has their personal information splattered across the net. That’s not worked so far, but hey…maybe it’ll work THIS time.

    Or we could try and see if Gardner News cares enough about the city, or its own reputation, to devote a couple minutes every day to moderating its forum. I’d be happy to go away if I knew that Judith would constrain herself to talking about issues and avoid attacking anyone who disagrees with her. She seems to like you, Wes. Maybe you could step in, help Gardner look better, and keep her on track.

    But seriously, setting aside all my objections to Judith’s past (and present) behavior, you ARE right Wes, that the forums out here are messy and that I’m not helping. For me, it comes down to the simple point that I don’t want to have Judith be the online representation of Gardner. As a city, we are SO much more than the face she paints on us.

    I really WOULD like someone to find a better solution to the problem you cite. It’s just that experience shows that reasoning with Judith is not going to change anything. I wish it were different.

  26. Judith Rogers says:

    As I mentioned earlier, Coward, Backstabbing Nonamer’s main goal is to shut my voice down. He and others don’t like it that I use FACTS to show citizens what is going on. They want censorship and they want the Gardner News and others to practice censorship and to take the right of free speech from citizens. THEY want to control the message and everything else because they want their way and what their way will bring them – money, greed and power.

    Citizens can decide whether they will believe the lies and the hate mongering spread by people such as Nonamer and what is motivating them and what is motivating me. He talks about the reputation of Gardner and how Gardner looks, etc., etc. You better believe he goes for the imitation varnish rather than what the strong foundation of Gardner or any community should be and that is because he is the type that is only interested in making the dollars and not strong moral values like HONESTY, integrity, ethics, character, etc. He is not a genuine, authentic person – he is a fake who will use any trick in his bag to get his way which is to only enhance himself and his cronies.

    Hopefully, there will always be people such myself to call the lowlifes out and who doesn’t go along to get along or to make a dollar or to sweeten their resume and in the process creating all kinds of problems for the decent citizen.

    I will never be reasoning with the wrongdoing, the manipulation, the conniving, the dishonesty and a whole lot of other things that go on because I am not wired to do so. Tough toenails, Nonamer, and you can keep trying to censor me and my actions but I won’t ever be following your master plan because, in my opinion, you represent evil and we have too much evil in the world. All citizens can make their own choices as to which path they will take.

  27. So, Wes. Did you catch all that? Stick around long enough and Judith will write one of those trademarked rants aimed at you, too.

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